Infrastructure Technology Podcast: How WSP is driving the future of V2X technology

Episode 8 of the Infrastructure Technology Podcast kicks off with a new game, Ahead or Behind, where the hosts guess which U.S. transit agencies led 2024’s bus ridership rankings. Gavin then interviews Virginia Lingham of WSP, who details how V2X technology is transforming roadway safety through connected infrastructure, collaboration and workforce innovation. Lingham also shares insights from her time at VDOT and ITS World Congress, including how AI can help agencies share best practices and make sense of massive transportation datasets. The show wraps with a discussion on Colorado’s autonomous work-zone trucks.

 

Here is a transcript from the episode:

GJ: And welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. I'm Gavin Jenkins, senior managing editor of Roads and Bridges, and with me, we have Ileana Garand.

IG: Happy Tuesday everybody.

GJ: Yeah. Ileana is the digital editor of Roads and Bridges. And joining us, as always, we have the man, the myth, the legend, Brandon Lewis from Mass Transit magazine.

BL: I think you guys already know it's Tuesday, so It's podcast day.

GJ: Alright, in this episode, I have an interview with Virginia Lingham from WSP. Very good interview. Please stick around for that. But first we're going to play a little game. Take it awa,. Brandon Lewis.

BL: Well, thank you. Gavin Jenkins. And guys, this season on the ITP, we have played a bunch of games, and we have stolen some bits, if you will, from our favorite sports game show host. Today, I have done a mix of both because for one season last year, there is a local Cleveland sort of startup media company where they had three legends of the Cleveland Browns play this game before every single game last year. And it was called Ahead or Behind.

GJ: Ahead or Behind.

BL: And so we are going to be taking this into the Mass Transit and Roads and Bridges world today, and what I did was, it took a good little while to find this information, but I have found the top 20 bus ridership numbers for 2024. And this is agency based, so these are all transit agencies, and again, we're just talking bus here, so we're not talking rail, we're not talking ferry or any other public transit mode. We're just talking bus and so I'm going to give you guys the number 10 agency and then I'm going to tell you the name of an agency, and you're going to have to guess whether that bus ridership number for 2024 was ahead or behind that number 10 agency. So if it is ahead, that means it has higher ridership numbers. If it is behind, that means it is behind in ridership numbers compared to the number 10 agency. Number one has the most ridership and so 10 is in the middle, and we're going to play either up to three points. I'll give you guys each a point if you get it correct, or we'll play up to seven questions so whatever happens first. Are you ready to play Ahead or Behind?

IG: Yes.

GJ: Let’s do this.

BL: Okay, the number 10 bus ridership for transit in the annual year of 2024 was out in Seattle, Washington, the King County Metro Transit, and it had 86,699,000 riders that year, so that is number 10.

GJ: None of that would've been necessary if they had just listened to my man in the movie Singles and had that train installed. Not a single chance.

IG: I've seen that movie.

BL: I have not.

GJ: It's a good infrastructure movie. Okay, 86 you said million?

BL: Yes.

GJ: So okay. 86 million for the entire year. Alright, that's a lot of people. A lot of committed bus riders who use it every day to go to work.

BL: Okay, is the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority in Boston, was their bus ridership for the year? Were they ahead or behind?

IG: I think ahead. There's a lot of people living in that area. I was out in Boston this summer, rode some of their great public transit. I'm going to say ahead.

GJ: Now before I answer, I have just a question for you, Brandon. Is it fair to say that, are there any cities on this list where it's just like, as we go through the list, is it just the bigger city is always closer to number one and then number one is just Los Angeles or New York? Are there curve balls? Are there curve balls?

BL: You would think so. I feel like if I give a yes or no, it may spoil.

GJ: It may spoil. Okay. Alright, so in order to test out this game of yours, I am going to say the opposite of Ileana and say that it is, you said it's behind?

IG: I said ahead. I think there's more riders in the Boston area.

GJ: You know what, Boston, there's a lot of people who are angry. It's colder. I think that they like to get behind the wheel of a car and drive themselves and then honk their horns and yell at people and so I'm going to say they're behind.

BL: Ileana gets the point. Yes, they are ahead. They added a total of 102, about 102 million ridership for last year in bus, so it was ranked number nine though, just ahead of the King County Metro Transit.

GJ: Okay.

BL: Okay. Number two. Again, King County Metro Transit, right in the middle with about 86 million riders. What about for the bus of the San Diego Metropolitan Transit System?

GJ: So San Diego's number two?

BL: No 

GJ: Oh, this is our second one. This is our second one. So where on… I'm ruining this game. I'm so sorry. Where on the top 10 is San Diego? Is it number eight? 

IG: That’s what you're asking, Gavin. We're trying to guess.

GJ: We're trying guess. Oh, so we're just trying to say compared to Seattle.

BL: Yes. Compared to King County Metro.

GJ: That’s the game. Okay, so the game is all in comparison to San Diego?

BL: Yes. No, it's in comparison to Seattle.

GJ: Oh, Seattle. Seattle. The middle. I'm sorry. Seattle.

IG: Yes.

GJ: Well, San Diego.

IG: San Diago.

GJ: San Diago. I'm not going to finish that movie reference. I'm going to say that, I'm going to go ahead and say it's behind.

IG: And I'm going to agree with Gavin on this. I do think it's behind.

BL: Okay, you guys are both right. It is behind. Yes, it is number 20 on the list. 

IG: Oh wow. It is?

GJ: Yeah, my thinking with that is because I've been there, and I don't remember seeing a single bus and it seemed like a smaller city than Seattle.

BL: Okay, so just for reference, the San Diego Metropolitan Transit System last year in bus ridership had about 38 million.

IG: Oh, wow.

BL: King County Metro again had about 86,699,000. So Ileana has two points. Gavin has one, so if Ileana gets this, this could be for the win.

IG: No pressure.

GJ: Okay. We're not just going to do the whole top 10.

BL: No because I figured that would take too long. We could save it for another time. We can always come back to it.

IG: So true.

BL: So what about the Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County, which is also known in our circles at Mass Transit as Houston Metro in Houston, Texas. Do they have more or do they have less bus riders last year than King County Metro Transit in Seattle? Ileana, I'll let you go first.

IG: Houston is notorious for having terrible congestion, terrible roads. Their solution seems to be just slap another lane in there, so I think public transit is part of that solution but something in my gut is telling me that they don't have as many as Seattle. I could be wrong. Houston is a giant area. There's always a lot of cars down there, so I'm going to say behind.

GJ: Alright, first off, for the record, I'd like to say as the senior managing editor of Roads and Bridges, that slapping another lane on there, not always a bad thing, especially if it's concrete or asphalt. Shout out to all of our concrete and asphalt people in the audience. People should also ride buses. I'm going to disagree with Ileana because I think that Houston is so big that it can have the congestion and still have more people on buses per year than Seattle.

BL: Well, one of you is right. Is this game going to continue or are we going to award a winner? And the answer is Ileana is once again correct. Houston Metro had 55 million bus riders in 2024. Again compared to King County Metro, which if you rounded up had 87 million bus riders.

GJ: That is wild. Can you just tell us who number one is though?

BL: Yes. Number one, I'm going to let you, do you want to take a guess with how many riders they had?

GJ: I'm going to say it's Los Angeles, and I'm going to say that it is 110 million.

BL: You're way off Gavin, on both. So it is not LA Metro, though they are on this list. The number one is in New York City. 

GJ: Really? The Metropolitan. Makes sense. 

BL: Specifically the New York City bus, and they had, if you run up the numbers, 695 million people.

GJ: Wow. I'm surprised New York just because of the metro, the subway,

BL: Right, but we talked about a couple episodes.

GJ: No, we know there's a lot of people.

BL: And hey listen, I'm in the right country today. I'm in the United States, so we're all good to go. Congratulations, Ileana, on winning the first ever ITP edition of Ahead or Behind.

IG: Thank you. Thank you Brandon. That was a really fun game.

GJ: That was great. I really liked that. 

IG: Even if we had some trouble getting the rules straight.

GJ: Awesome job, Brandon, and congratulations, Ileana, on defeating me soundly. And now we will turn it over to me and my interview with Virginia Lingham from WSP, who is the vice president and national ITS lead at WSP in the U.S, and here's a little bit more background on Virginia. With more than 20 years in the transportation sector, she is passionate about improving transportation safety and helping clients solve their most complex challenges, often by bridging the gap between research and implementation of emerging transportation technologies with innovative techniques and solutions. This is a great interview, I hope you enjoy it. Here is my interview with Virginia Lingham. 

GJ: Virginia Lingham, welcome to the Infrastructure Technology Podcast. Thanks for joining us today.

VL: Thanks Gavin. It's great to be here.

GJ: Alright, well let's dive right in. You have more than 20 years of experience in the transportation space. What excites you most about how V2X technology is transforming the industry today?

VL: I've been working on intelligent transportation systems for my whole career and on V2X solutions or Connect Vehicle solutions, VI solutions for about 15 years now, and it's really an exciting time to see it mature and scale. We're at this point where there's a lot of support for the technology, and we're really working hard to resolve that omnipresent chicken and the egg problem that's been there for so many years. We're at a time where we're beginning to evaluate the benefits and really seeing the benefits and moving this technology from research into implementation, and it's really exciting to be part of some key projects that are really actively pursuing that and doing it.

GJ: Alright, well tell me how you see the future shaping up with transportation systems over the next five, 10 years.

VL: It's just the natural evolution of technology, so I see V2X solutions just folding into traditional ITS programs and other things. It's just the next evolution of technology that's going to be part of deployments so things that we're going to be taking for granted in five to 10 years in my career, I hope to see that we're not running red lights, that we're not having fender benders that somebody’s day being ruined because they got into a fender bender on their way to school is like a thing of the past, a real rare occurrence, so those type of safety things I am really excited to see happen over the next five to 10 years. Also, the data side of the house, when I was working at VDOT as their traveler, or as their connected vehicle program manager, we were really beginning to grasp the need to provide information to both drivers on the traveler information side via signs and messages and all sorts of ways that we traditionally communicate with drivers, but then also through roadway digital infrastructure, so providing that information to systems that are beginning to input that or intake that information. So when I was at VDOT, for example, and this product is still out there, it was the Smarter Roads data portal and other states have similar platforms where they're sharing information about the roadways, so we're at this phase where we have to communicate with both human drivers and then increasingly with systems that are able to take in that information and use it, so that's all part of this ecosystem that is developing and really maturing right now.

GJ: Alright. You mentioned VDOT, just so our listeners understand, is that Vermont or Virginia?

VL: Oh, sorry. It's Virginia Department of Transportation. By namesake.

GJ: Yeah, that was fun, so let's take a break for a second. Not from the podcast, but just from the topic that we're talking about. Tell the listeners about your career. How did you get here? Where did you start?

VL: Yeah, so I think it's an interesting, I've always been interested in ITS so just by happenstance, I ran into, was working while I was taking a break from college, I was working for a company that was doing red light photo enforcement here in San Diego, and I just got in the loop on intelligent transportation systems, and this was in the late 1990s, back in the 1900s when these systems were really emerging, and once I got that excitement and that passion around technology, safety, policy and how they can all work together to really improve safety mobility and the environment, it just stuck with me, so I returned to college, got my degrees at Wayne State and then at UC, Berkeley, got to do some pivotal research at UC, Berkeley and worked with some great people like Susan Shaheen and others doing a lot of great work there and then the other rest was history, just working for different on the consulting side, private sector, and then about half of my career in the public sector with Wisconsin DOT, MTC in the Bay area and then Virginia DOT so starting in traveler information and well, ITS more generally, but then focusing on traveler information and then traveler information evolved into connected focus on connected vehicles and now I'm leading the ITS practice because I have that versatile experience of tackling all of these different topics, but with really a focus on data operations, mobility and bridging the gap between research and implementation, like you said in the intro. That's really the sweet spot where I really like to work.

GJ: And that leads me to my next question because I knew that you had done a little bit in the public and private, and so what role do you think that that collaboration is going to play in scaling V2X technologies nationwide?

VL: It's really about, I am glad you mentioned the collaboration because the collaboration is so important for several. I mean, for many years, I was part of the connected vehicle pooled fund study, which is just one of many pooled fund studies where it's an opportunity for states to invest their research funds and then coordinate on deployment and application development for connected vehicles in that case, but on other topics for other pooled fund studies, and it's like that collaboration is needed, and there's so many different examples of that. I was just in a meeting last week, and we were talking about the V2X deployment coalition, and that was like 10 years ago, but that was really a great moment where everybody was gathering collaborating because the auto industry was having their discussions and then ITS America and that group, the more like the vendors and private sector were having their discussions, FHWA, they were having their, so we just needed to all get together at that point, and that's how you make things happen. You can't just work on things individually, so I'm very committed to collaboration with my clients. I'm committed to collaboration within NWSP and always looking for those opportunities to help facilitate those conversations in order to make things happen because that's the only way we're going to get anything done is by breaking down those silos and really bringing the big benefits to these implementations.

GJ: What would you say the biggest barriers are, state and local DOT’s face when they want to adopt V2X technology?

VL: I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is procurement. Procurement is challenging. Being able to procure these things at scale, getting staff, getting procurement folks to understand what it's going to take to buy the widgets and why they're important and how they can be installed and how they work with the IT systems versus the operational technology systems so all of those kind of technical considerations, as well as the more institutional considerations, those are really challenging, but I would say increasingly workforce development is a challenge as we scale what can be done to help raise all boats in the sea so that the signal techs are comfortable working with this new technologies, so I see that being more and more of a challenge and things are happening, like FHWA has their cohorts, so anyone who's getting grants is invited to those cohorts that USDOT is organizing and so they're trying to educate and share information through those mechanisms, but I think we really need to go bigger than that. We're working on some things within WSP to train folks and to get people familiar with what's happening in the next wave of ITS, including V2X technology, but that's going to be a big need is making sure that people are comfortable working with these technologies, installing them and also the service layer, so once we have all of this data, what do we do with it? There was just a webinar yesterday about data rich and insights poor. So what do we do with all of this data once it's reliably available? How do we create those insights? How do we create the applications? How do we actually create real meaning and usefulness for given all the data that's coming in? So that's another workforce development program adjustment type need. I think that we'll see more and more as these systems mature.

GJ: Okay. Well, I want to put you on the spot a little bit. Can you give me an example of a successful V2X deployment that you've worked on and tell us a little bit of the lessons that you learned.

VL: Sure. I'm going to call out the project that we've worked on for several years with the connected vehicle pooled fund study. It's called Connected Intersection Message monitoring system. This is a project that originated from one of the leaders within the Ohio Department of Transportation, or Drive Ohio, and they had deployed many units, many roadside units, and they have Hondas right there in their backyard. They have other automakers nearby, but as the automakers were saying, ‘Well, how do we know that your data is good? How can we trust it in order to incorporate it into our systems’? So the project idea came about, and they wanted to create a message monitoring system to show that the public sector data was good, so that's what we did. We worked with the team, several different folks that were involved. We, it's still an ongoing project, so we have a great team of people who developed this message monitoring system and then we've gone out to, I think at least five or six different sites now that have implemented this in order to prove that the data coming from these roadside units is good and that it can be used, and it can communicate well with the onboard units that are part of this connected vehicle ecosystem. I mean, I consider that a deployment and something that's a critical piece to show the validity of the data that's coming from the public sector. The public sector, they need this V2X technology, the V2X ecosystem in order to reduce their costs. The 5.9 spectrum, they're able to communicate on that spectrum for no cost, so there's no sell bill, it's just direct communications for safety purposes. If you've been following this, you know that the bandwidth shrunk a number of years ago, but there's still a lot that can be done within the existing bandwidth, and it's important for public sector to be able to leverage that in order to meet their safety critical applications and needs that they're responsible for.

GJ: That was a great answer. How do you help agencies balance the cost of emerging technologies with long-term benefits then?

VL: I think by incorporating it into existing programs and really being able to measure the benefits in a way that aligns with other program goals. We’re working on that now with our V2X accelerator grant with Maricopa County DOT, so we're working on the performance measurement evaluation plan and coming up with real outcomes based, statistically significant performance measures that will be folded into this long-term project for Maricopa County, so it has to align with safety, it has to align with economic development, it has to align with their mobility goals. We have transit partners in there, so it also has to align with maybe other stakeholders and other partners goals as it continues to progress.

GJ: And safety. That's what the main thing here is safety but is there trust with the public? What do you say to people in the public who say that they have trouble trusting automated connected vehicle technologies?

VL: Well, there's two different things there, and they're both maturing quickly, so self-driving vehicles typically are not connected. It's rare that they are connected. There are a couple of companies that are willing to do that, so I think that they get combined in the lingo quite a bit.

GJ: I thought like a Waymo had to be connected. I didn't know.

VL: Well, they're connected to their own private network, their own private system, so yes, they are connected just like a General Motors vehicle or a Tesla is connected to their own system, and they're sharing information in their own cloud, but a Tesla, or I was in a Waymo in Atlanta and two Waymo's were passing each other. I'm like, ‘Wouldn't it be great if the Waymo's could talk to each other’? Like, ‘Hi Waymo, hi Waymo’. And then, oh, there's a big truck parked blocking the bike lane and taking it over, sharing that information directly. That would be pretty neat, but as far as sharing it with roadside units or public sector infrastructure, that typically isn't done to collect signal phase and timing information or traveler information messages, but there's opportunities to do that, and as the message sets become more and more available and more and more reliable, then I think there's going to be more of that so getting back to your question though about public trust, it is really important. We're working on signal priority for emergency vehicles, for transit vehicles, freight pedestrians, so as we're maturing that signal priority technology using the connected vehicle BAC solutions, that has to work. It has to fit within the regular guidelines for signal control, and it just has to be designed to be robust and to do that, so if anything, when it comes to public trust with these technologies, it just should be seamless. They shouldn't really know or realize what's going on. It should just be seamless to the public for the most part, or they see an extra benefit. I'm currently on crutches right now so wouldn't it be great? I was walking across a street and because I'm on my crutches, I'm so slow, I could barely make the ped count. I actually did not make the ped count, and I was like, ‘Oh, I wish I had a little app that said that I was still in the crosswalk, so it would hold the light for another couple seconds’. That's a real benefit to our most vulnerable road users that I think that if we can communicate that and show that, then that gives us an extra reason to be able to implement these solutions.

GJ: How do you see artificial intelligence and machine learning advancing the impact of V2X and ITS solutions?

VL: It is an extra tool in the toolbox, so it's up to us to figure out how to use these new tools. One way is just sharing information, so if we have these libraries of information, all of these success stories, we have so many success stories all across the U.S. and nobody knows about it because nobody has the bandwidth to read all these studies to do these reports, so if we can use AI and those large language models to pull together best practices and effective practices and then share those more effectively, I think that would be a huge benefit. In addition to the systems level, increase in productivity of managing the data, storing the data, processing the data, we're in an exciting time where all of that is increasing in speed and reliability. I think it has an opportunity to make a big impact in many different ways, actually. And on the ITS side, if you think about traffic management centers, there's just huge opportunities for AI solutions and generative AI, gentech AI, all different types of AI tools are going to be really useful for those types of applications. It's exciting.

GJ: You mentioned you took a Waymo in Atlanta. Was that when you were at ITS the conference?

VL: Yep.

GJ: How was that?

VL: It was great. I was really impressed. I was really impressed. Over the years, I've been in many self-driving vehicles, and it took a couple tries to be able to get it through the Uber app. I had to cancel a few times but then finally it popped up, so I was able to take two rides, and it was seamless. I was actually very impressed. It was able to adapt to things like vehicles blocking a part of a lane. One time there was a garbage can that was knocked over, and it just kind of softly went around it. I was really impressed, and I was able to respond to scooters on the side of the road, pedestrians and crosswalks. The Waymo is doing really, really good. I feel like they're maturing, and they're really growing in a smart way, in a very thoughtful way. For some of my other projects I'm working on, we've been interviewing Waymo and trying to help our clients understand what it means to implement Waymo or to deploy Waymo's in their areas, and I've been impressed with everything that I've seen from Waymo lately.

GJ: That's awesome. That's really awesome. What about the conference itself? ITS, you were on a panel or did you give a talk, a lecture?

VL: Yeah, ITS World Congress was excellent. I'm actually on the board for ITS World Congress, so I get involved with planning the committees or planning the program. I get involved with quite a bit of different things, so I had organized two sessions myself and then got pulled into moderating a session for a workforce development workshop and then helped out with a technical paper session, but several people on our team. We had quite a few presentations that were selected for the World Congress, and it was just a great event, just so many people. It was nice having my whole team there. It was great seeing all of our clients in one place, the Maricopa County DOT project and the VDX accelerator grants, they all had booths, so it was great to see the different projects for the VDAX accelerator grants, all talking to each other and sharing information and just that facetime actually having everyone there in person, just so valuable., so it was a great week in Atlanta.

GJ: That's awesome. That's really great. Alright, I'm going to get you out of here on one last question. If you could give a piece of advice to transportation leaders across the country, the leaders who are planning for the next decade, what would you say to them?

VL: Okay. My advice to our leaders right now is embrace. We need to bring people into our industry. So how do we bring people into our industry to support transportation? It's very difficult to get into the transportation industry, so we need to open that up a bit to bring in the skill sets and bring in the people that are going to fill the shoes of this large wave of folks that are retiring, which is already underway, so I think we need to be creative in how we address the workforce needs of our industry and make it fun. This is a great industry. We're really serving the needs of people, and we're doing fun things with technology and economic development. Nothing would exist. We have to go back to our core values of why transportation is so important. We have to get people to their doctor's appointments. We have to get people from point A to point B. It's just how people live and so kind of bringing it back to that core value of why we do what we do, working in transportation and communicating that to others to bring people into the industry, I think is very important, so that's what I would say to the leaders is let's think about creative ways to bring people into the industry. Let's make it fun, and let's get the job done.

GJ: Love it. I love it. What a great answer. Alright, Virginia Lingham, WSP, thank you so much for joining us on the Infrastructure Technology Podcast.

VL: Great. Thanks, Gavin. Great to be here.

GJ: Alright, and now we are back. That was my interview with Virginia Lingham. Give it to me straight. What did you think, Brandon?

BL: Overall, I thought, again, Gavin, as you always do, it was a really good interview, and I thought it was really interesting of what Virginia said on two fronts. One of the words that she used to describe Waymo was that it was maturing, and she talked about the experience of even getting to ride in one. She made me really want to hop in one and experience that. I think it's really great to see what that could potentially do for even the public transit industry in the future, and then also she talked about transit single priority, and I have a little bit of a relationship with that because I had actually just finished for our Mass Transit September/October issue, which is out right now while you're listening to this ITP podcast, about what the MBTA, the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, the agency that is one up on King County Metro Transit for having more bus riders in 2024. We talked about their transit single priority and what they're doing to improve the bus and everything going on in Boston, so it's really great to see that Virginia is a part of these two excellent initiatives.

GJ: Alright, Ileana.

IG: I'm not quite ready to hop in a Waymo. 

GJ: Yeah, me neither. 

IG: Brandon, I'll let you try it first and let me know but what did stick out to me was most interesting of your conversation with Virginia was how she posited the possibility of the collaboration with the public and the private sector to where a Waymo going down the street has the potential to pick up obstacles in the roads or alert about a truck that's sitting in a crosswalk or something like that. It sounded like that information is not being shared right now, and so that's not possible for the public sector to use, but I thought that was an interesting possibility.

GJ: Yeah, I agree, and it was a fun interview. I always like talking to people from WSP. It's one of the best engineering firms in the world, and they're so innovative and so it's really great to talk to some of their thought leaders and anyone in their leadership. They're just a really, really great company, and yeah, Virginia was awesome to talk to, and speaking of automation, it leads us into our next subject that we want to talk about. We have a news item. Ileana, do you want to explain?

IG: Yes, so this is a self-driving vehicle that I am excited about. It doesn't have any passengers, so I'm a little more okay with that, but the Colorado Department of Transportation recently is getting some coverage in the news because it is deploying self-driving highway maintenance trucks, and those are meant to protect workers on the road, so the main drive of this is safety. In 2013, 16 people were killed in Colorado highway work zone incidents, and that number almost doubled last year. It was 31 deaths in 2024 and that included two roadside workers. These trucks are known as autonomous truck mounted attenuators, and they're designed to absorb impacts in roadside work areas and shield crews from potentially deadly collisions. How it works is the self-driving truck is going to follow a maintenance machine that is manned by a person, and it uses sensors, actuators and video links to set the course. As the maintenance vehicle goes, the self-driving car is going to follow it behind, and if an object enters the lane, it triggers an automatic stop. I think Colorado is really leading the charge. They're the first state that tested it and now they're the first state too, to fully deploy it.

GJ: So yeah, Colorado is leading the charge, but there are six states that have piloted these programs, and they’re 10 more states that are running tests.

IG: Yes, Colorado was the first to test.

GJ: The DOT’s do a really good job of communicating with one another, and they go to a conference, actually there's one at the beginning of October where they really share information and innovation and so that way some other states don't leave others behind when it comes to technology and so you have a lot of states that are following Colorado's lead. States like California, Indiana, Minnesota, North Dakota, some of the other states that are running projects. Maryland, Florida, Missouri, Tennessee and Pennsylvania. Yeah. What do you think, Brandon?

BL: Yeah, I would've loved to hear Ohio on that list. It sounds like it's not going to be in Ohio yet hopefully relatively soon, and again, I think any technology that we have in today's society that can help make driving and roads and transit and everything that we talked about safer is a good thing and so I'm excited to see what results come out of this pilot as it gets tested in more states and as we get more data.

GJ: So my question for you two then would be, alright, let's say that these programs are a success and that these potentiators cut back on work zone crashes and they save lives, which is awesome. It's what we want. This is something that we cover every April during national work zone awareness week. If this is a huge success, what’s next? Where does it go?

BL: That's a good question. I would say maybe we're seeing a bunch of autonomous vehicles being used in transit. Maybe it gets more carried over to that side or maybe even potentially it gets over to maybe some of the construction equipment side, right? Maybe we get more autonomous tractors or excavators or who knows? Maybe this technology just carries over to any moving vehicle you could think of.

IG: For me, the first step is just nationwide adoption of this technology. Sometimes we get some really cool tech that comes out. It has a great pilot but then there's not enough funding for DOT’s to go forward with it so right now Colorado is focusing on using these in striping projects, but they want to expand, have these protections on mowing, pothole, patching and sweeping projects. Obviously, the largest obstacle is price. It takes about a million dollars to outfit each truck with the technology and that doesn't include the vehicle itself. And then the crash absorber. It has a scorpion cage is what it's called to absorb the impact of any stray car or any object that would hit it.

GJ: Yeah, it's very expensive and then that's why more states probably haven't done it yet. I think that what we're seeing are the first steps of, and it's not going to happen in the next five years, but maybe 10, 15, 20 years. We're going to see. Within 20 years, I think we're going to just see automation, everything. It's going to be like Minority Report, where no one's driving or in total recall with the Johnny Cabs, and it all comes back to Syfi movies. The people who are in charge of these companies all love Syfi movies, all of 'em. Alright, well that does it for today's show. For Roads and Bridges, I am Gavin Jenkins.

IG: I'm Ileana Garand.

BL: And for Mass Transit, I am Brandon Lewis.

GJ: Alright, and we will see you next time. We want to thank you, the listener, and please write us at [email protected], and we'd also like to thank our bosses at Endeavor B2B, a great company with a lot of other trade magazines and brands that you should check out. And until next Tuesday, goodbye.